CCBill MasterCard Informational Release - GoFuckYourself.com

corvette · 07-23-2003, 07:08 AM

Dear CCBill Client -

Since March 2002, CCBill has been working with MasterCard to achieve full compliance with their rules and requirements. We hope that this release, and the accompanying demonstrations within your CCBill Admin (webadmin.ccbill.com), will help you understand what final changes we all must make to be compliant with MasterCard regulations. We have worked diligently to create the easiest and least intrusive model that we could and, as always, are here to help you through the process and changes in the industry.

MasterCard Requirements

Although we cannot speak on the actions of others in this industry, CCBill is in a position where it is possible to comply with all association rules and regulations with minimal changes to either your, or our, business model. In the document below, we will attempt to explain the major issues and explain your role in the necessary changes.

CCBill deals with the consumer throughout the transaction

CCBill?s service is similar to that of Ticketmaster and any other company that provides outsourced Box Office, e-ticketing, and access management for clients. The consumers come to our box office (an approved sign-up form) and negotiate directly with us for access to your electronic venue. CCBill is responsible for providing the consumer an electronic ticket (confirmation) and ensuring customer satisfaction and service throughout the terms of our agreement.

What affect does this have on you, CCBill?s client?[list=1][*]Clients need to be careful that their marketing indicates that the consumer is purchasing access through CCBill. For the most part, this is the case already. [*]The above includes the use of MasterCard logos and trademarks. Please see CCBill?s AUP regarding this matter. [*]CCBill?s clients cannot pass any of the consumer?s personal information to CCBill besides consumer email. This means that besides consumer email, two-part forms used for marketing will not be allowed to pass data in to CCBill sign-up forms.[/list=1]

CCBill must create a consumer ?shopping experience? at ccbill.com

In an effort to satisfy MasterCard?s demands, CCBill is pleased to announce the upcoming August 15, 2003 launch of the new CCBill.com Search & Shop Consumer website located at www.ccbill.com CCBill's Search & Shop Website offers online consumers an exclusive buying experience by introducing these consumers to the thousands of subscription-based websites or electronic venues for which CCBill offers E-Ticketing access services.*

*A full DEMO of This Experience is Available within your CCBill Admin.

What does Search & Shop mean to you as a CCBill Client?

As a valued client, your account's website URL's may randomly be returned to online visitors that come directly to www.ccbill.com when they type their search criteria into the Search & Shop search engine located at CCBill.com; if one of your websites is randomly returned, these consumers may choose to purchase an E-Ticket for membership to your website via the Search & Shop Shopping Cart.*

There is nothing you have to do for your sites to be returned in the random search engine. CCBill will randomly generate returns for searched criteria.

Important Note: CCBill will generate random username and passwords for all sales generated through the CCBill.com Search & Shop Website.

*Please see CCBill?s tutorials within your web admin.

CCBill must allow consumers to continue shopping from the sign-up forms

The exact rule that MasterCard implemented is that consumers must be able to purchase diverse goods during one shopping experience. The essence of the rule was that CCBill had to create an option for consumers to not only complete their sign-up with the venue that got them to the sign-up form, but also to continue shopping at CCBill.Com.

If an online customer visits your website, and chooses to use their MasterCard to purchase a subscription via your CCBill Sign up form; upon entering their MasterCard number onto the subscription form, they will dynamically be presented with two options for completing their sale:

The opportunity to simply purchase their subscription and complete their shopping at that time; or
Complete this purchase, and then continue shopping on the Search & Shop website. If they choose this option, they will be taken to the Search & Shop website, where the first returned page will present them with a statement of their purchase along with a returned search results area, which can include your sub account URL's or, affiliate accounts of your choices, as the initial or first returns for your customer?s continued shopping experience.*

*Please see the full demo within your CCBill reports admin. CCBill has already revamped every form in our system and there is no work required on our clients? part.

CCBill must provide a description sufficient for a consumer to purchase the ticket

CCBill has created an interactive system that will create automated selling statements for our clients? venue on the Search and Shop pages. Due to the short production time allowed by MasterCard for the creation of this new system, all selling statements located at ccbill.com will be the responsibility of CCBill.com, and cannot be customized by clients at this time.

CCBill does not require you to create your own selling description on your sign-up forms. CCBill has, however, created an interface that allows you to create a custom selling description to be added to the sign-up forms of your choice within your account. CCBill must approve all custom descriptions prior to their placement on your forms. Remember, if you choose not to customize your descriptors, a default description created by CCBill will already appear.

Summary of Changes

Below we have provided a quick summary of the changes and have broken them down into what CCBill has already done and what you must do.

CCBill

Create Consumer Shopping Experience
Allow multiple purchases when purchasing by MasterCard
Create Selling Descriptors

Our Client
Nothing, unless you choose to do so.

Please log into webadmin.ccbill.com to learn more about the customizable features available to you. A description and tutorial on the features can be found under the ?Premium Features? Tab within your Admin. Once there, select ?Search & Shop?, take a walk through of a flash demonstration of the ?consumer experience?, and learn how to get the most out of these new features.

As our Industry continues to change, it is our goal at CCBill to continually provide you with innovative solutions to support your websites and e-venues success today, tomorrow, and into the future.

As of August 15, 2003, and with the re-designation of www.ccbill.com as a consumer based website, you will be able to access your client services needs, including links to System5, Account Change Forms, and Technical Support at our new business website, bizcenter.ccbill.com.

Please remember, that along with this release we have also created hands-on samples and tutorials within your reports admin area. These presentations should answer any remaining questions and guide you through the process. If you have any additional questions regarding the new Search & Shop
system, please feel free to contact us at [email protected] or call us at 800.510.2859.

Thank You For Your Continued Patronage

Ron Cadwell
President
CCBill, LLC

John3 · 07-23-2003, 07:12 AM

Quote:

The exact rule that MasterCard implemented is that consumers must be able to purchase diverse goods during one shopping experience. The essence of the rule was that CCBill had to create an option for consumers to not only complete their sign-up with the venue that got them to the sign-up form, but also to continue shopping at CCBill.Com.

If an online customer visits your website, and chooses to use their MasterCard to purchase a subscription via your CCBill Sign up form; upon entering their MasterCard number onto the subscription form, they will dynamically be presented with two options for completing their sale:

The opportunity to simply purchase their subscription and complete their shopping at that time; or

Complete this purchase, and then continue shopping on the Search & Shop website. If they choose this option, they will be taken to the Search & Shop website, where the first returned page will present them with a statement of their purchase along with a returned search results area, which can include your sub account URL's or, affiliate accounts of your choices, as the initial or first returns for your customer?s continued shopping experience.*

interesting.

Madball · 07-23-2003, 07:25 AM

Now thank God ibill will do a webcast on this hahahaha

polish_aristocrat · 07-23-2003, 07:32 AM

so these are the new Mastercard requirements... ?

I can't see there anything bad...

shunga · 07-23-2003, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by polish_aristocrat
so these are the new Mastercard requirements... ?

I can't see there anything bad...

"Since March 2002, CCBill has been working with MasterCard to achieve full compliance with their rules and requirements... Although we cannot speak on the actions of others in this industry..."

andi_germany · 07-23-2003, 08:27 AM

Ok I understand what is happening but how Mastercard thinks chargebacks will drop is beyond me. Besides the original sales the customer is forced into a cicle of shops and upsells. Noone can tell me that is within what the customer wants.

FATPad · 07-23-2003, 08:27 AM

Anyone else hear that "whooooosh" as the air was taken out of ibill's sails?

BRISK · 07-23-2003, 08:34 AM

Why does Mastercard care about the further shopping experiences? What does that have to do with chargebacks? I don't think it's a bad thing, I just don't understand why they're asking for it.

Explain

Cindyff · 07-23-2003, 08:35 AM

This all sounds like a real can of worms to me. On one hand we hear that cross selling is bad and results in charge backs now we hear its ok to sell a number of sites to the same member ?

Maybe i am reading this wrong but as webmasters you all know most of the people out there that join adult sites are not too bright ? All they want is an instant whack off instigated by the great tour they have just visited ? Are they going to remember which sites they joined when they are able to make one two or even three purchases at one time. This to me sounds like the perfect recipe for more charge backs.

Cindy xx

BRISK · 07-23-2003, 08:36 AM

Why does Mastercard care if you can purchase diverse goods during one shopping experience?

John3 · 07-23-2003, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BRISK
Why does Mastercard care if you can purchase diverse goods during one shopping experience?

think about it for a while.
I have a pretty good guess.

BRISK · 07-23-2003, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by John3

think about it for a while.
I have a pretty good guess.

More sales overall for Mastercard? Thats all I can think of

Kimmykim · 07-23-2003, 08:42 AM

Mastercard are idiots, there is no doubt about it. This just goes to prove the point.

PM2 · 07-23-2003, 08:45 AM

maybe so the consumer is aware they are purchasing a membership essentially from a broker of several different websites and not just a site owner.

Knowing this, they are more likely to contact ccbill to cancel their membership instead of simply charging back.

Builds awareness that ccbill is the biller, and recognition of what exactly a 3rd party biller is.

Jizar II · 07-23-2003, 08:46 AM

very interesting!

FATPad · 07-23-2003, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PM2
maybe so the consumer is aware they are purchasing a membership essentially from a broker of several different websites and not just a site owner.

Knowing this, they are more likely to contact ccbill to cancel their membership instead of simply charging back.

Builds awareness that ccbill is the biller, and recognition of what exactly a 3rd party biller is.

So when I go to eat at Angelino's (Chicken Milanese...MMMmmm), and whip out the MC will I be presented with a full shopping experience? Or will I just buy my italian food and go home?

I'm not sure I need to see a full blown selection of products from Sears, JC Penney, Outback, Ling's Chinese Food, Pet World, and Stop And Shop when I buy Italian food.

BRISK · 07-23-2003, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PM2
maybe so the consumer is aware they are purchasing a membership essentially from a broker of several different websites and not just a site owner.

Knowing this, they are more likely to contact ccbill to cancel their membership instead of simply charging back.

Builds awareness that ccbill is the biller, and recognition of what exactly a 3rd party biller is.

Yeah, I guess that could be it, but I don't think it will make much difference than what we have today.

As it is today, when someone signs up, the sign up page says YOU ARE BEING BILLED BY CCBILL or IBILL or PAYCOM or whatever.

I think it will just confuse surfers even more.

BRISK · 07-23-2003, 08:52 AM

It's like buying a Ford from a Ford dealership and then once you've paid for it, they send you walking through the rest of the Auto mall to look at Chevy, Mazda, Toyota, and Mercedes dealerships before you can get in and drive your new car off the lot.

gothweb · 07-23-2003, 08:56 AM

I seem to remember another biller also introducing a shopping experience a while back to comply with MasterCard. I think, to a certain extent, that requirement helps classify a biller as a shopping centre, rather than a third-party processor. It may not be directly related to the 1% chargeback requirement.

One thing I have been wondering is this: How would the chargeback situation be affected if the biller sent a receipt for purchase by registered mail to every customer at their billing address. I'd love to see people challenge it, if the IP address, etc. were logged and included.

Allister · 07-23-2003, 08:58 AM

Greetings all:

I should have looked here first for more input before my message being sent to mastercard (specifically the in-person presentation of alternate options). But below is a message I sent and hope to get a reply to. Another point that I really wish I had thought to put in is whether we, the webmaster get blamed for every single chargeback that they incurred by having stolen our traffic from us.

Greetings:

I just recieved an email from CCBILL outlining some "new rules" mastercard has implemented.

First, the quote: "The exact rule that MasterCard implemented is that consumers must be able to purchase diverse goods during one shopping experience. The essence of the rule was that CCBill had to create an option for consumers to not only complete their sign-up with the venue that got them to the sign-up form, but also to continue shopping at CCBill.Com."

The problem that you are causing here is that while you are making more money off the "off" sales, you are sullying internet traffic. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND that you look at the long term profits you are going to be denied because of the short term money grab. When you sully the traffic, webmasters WON'T want to deal with you (because you have just stolen our traffic - aka. our source of income - from our pockets).

Also, could you please send me a link to somewhere on your site that tells me why, exactly, mastercard can make "rules" that other's have to follow. These affect entire national economies and cc companies are allowed to do it. I am really interested as to why.

Yours Truly,
/...

I hope being civil get's me a response. I decided not to go straight to calling them criminals (though it would seem like a blackmail type of thing going on there right now).

Cheers,
/Allister

CC's

PM2 · 07-23-2003, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by FATPad
So when I go to eat at Angelino's (Chicken Milanese...MMMmmm), and whip out the MC will I be presented with a full shopping experience? Or will I just buy my italian food and go home?

I'm not sure I need to see a full blown selection of products from Sears, JC Penney, Outback, Ling's Chinese Food, Pet World, and Stop And Shop when I buy Italian food.

well under that scenario you are billed directly by the merchant. just speculating.... but if consumers were aware they are purchasing from a processor that offers a suite of websites and not just a single webmaster, they would actually be less likely to chargeback as the overall appearance of the transaction has changed from a fly-by-night website to a more powerful well-known company.

Obviously ccbill processed a large ammount of transactions.... but is the consumer aware of this? no. If a consumer is aware they are dealing with a large company does the chance of chargeback decrease? Yes.

Just my oppinion

jimmyf · 07-23-2003, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by John3

think about it for a while.
I have a pretty good guess.

me 2. they want the surfer 2 use there master Card not there Visa Card.

War of the online Credit Card companies is here.

BRISK · 07-23-2003, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gothweb
I seem to remember another biller also introducing a shopping experience a while back to comply with MasterCard. I think, to a certain extent, that requirement helps classify a biller as a shopping centre, rather than a third-party processor. It may not be directly related to the 1% chargeback requirement.

One thing I have been wondering is this: How would the chargeback situation be affected if the biller sent a receipt for purchase by registered mail to every customer at their billing address. I'd love to see people challenge it, if the IP address, etc. were logged and included.

1) Just because someone signs for a receipt by registered mail doesn't do anything to prove that they authorized the charge to their card.

2) Registered mail is expensive

shunga · 07-23-2003, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gothweb
I think, to a certain extent, that requirement helps classify a biller as a shopping centre, rather than a third-party processor.

"CCBill?s service is similar to that of Ticketmaster..."

I thought that passage was particularly interesting.

nobull · 07-23-2003, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gothweb
I seem to remember another biller also introducing a shopping experience a while back to comply with MasterCard. I think, to a certain extent, that requirement helps classify a biller as a shopping centre, rather than a third-party processor. It may not be directly related to the 1% chargeback requirement.

One thing I have been wondering is this: How would the chargeback situation be affected if the biller sent a receipt for purchase by registered mail to every customer at their billing address. I'd love to see people challenge it, if the IP address, etc. were logged and included.

It would cause more chargebacks....think of all the wifes that would be sitting at home when the mailman comes to the door with a registered letter...the dude would be like (im calling the CC company right now and have this BS charge taken off my card

FATPad · 07-23-2003, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PM2

well under that scenario you are billed directly by the merchant. just speculating.... but if consumers were aware they are purchasing from a processor that offers a suite of websites and not just a single webmaster, they would actually be less likely to chargeback as the overall appearance of the transaction has chaned from a fly-by-night website to a more powerful well-known company.

Obviously ccbill processed a large ammount of transactions.... but is the consumer aware of this? no. If a consumer is aware they are dealing with a large company does the chance of chargeback decrease? Yes.

Just my oppinion

Ahhh. I see what you're saying now.

But I don't agree. ;) Mastercard wants chargebacks to drop because the sites/services are what was promised, and no one got billed for anything unexpectedly, not because someone thinks they're dealing with a big company.

Kimmykim · 07-23-2003, 09:08 AM

If you think about some of the things in this directive, there are some very creative marketing opportunities.

Before the surfer buys anything.

PM2 · 07-23-2003, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by FATPad

Ahhh. I see what you're saying now.

But I don't agree. ;) Mastercard wants chargebacks to drop because the sites/services are what was promised, and no one got billed for anything unexpectedly, not because someone thinks they're dealing with a big company.

well, im not sure what ccbill or ibill does with chargebacks... but if I were them id be turning them over to collection agencies.... teach the consumer a valuable lesson. Visa/MC actually encourage this recourse for merchants... though Im unsure if its applicable to high-risk.

I do it and I feel good about it and it works.

BRISK · 07-23-2003, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PM2

well, im not sure what ccbill or ibill does with chargebacks... but if I were them id be turning them over to collection agencies.... teach the consumer a valuable lesson. Visa/MC actually encourage this recourse for merchants... though Im unsure if its applicable to high-risk.

I do it and I feel good about it and it works.

How can you prove they authorized the charge to their credit card? you have no signature at the point of sale.

PM2 · 07-23-2003, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BRISK

How can you prove they authorized the charge to their credit card? you have no signature at the point of sale.

Collection agencies shelter the risk of collection. You are offered protection by contract if a consumer does decide to sue you. When someone is told they have 30 days to pay up or their credit gets hit, 75% of the time they do.

Visa/MC have their own rules, but that does not mean the person charging back doesn't owe you money for services you rendered.

Matt 26z · 07-23-2003, 09:20 AM

If I understand this correctly, after a surfer buys a membership to a site and chooses to continue shopping they will then be presented with other porn sites. You have control over the first X number of results, but not all of them.

So you'd better hope they don't see something better they may want instead.

But if it's actual goods that they buy along with your site, there's no way they can claim stoen acct and charge back. Correct? The physical evidence would be there that they bought the goods, and thus, your site also.

Carrie · 07-23-2003, 09:27 AM

Questions:

A) What does this mean for affiliates? If we send a signup to site #1, and the customer buys and then also buys from site #2 - do we get a signup from the second sale as well?
Seems to me that this would necessitate the re-introduction of CCBucks, where one account could let you promote everyone in the system.

B) Could the webmaster provide multiple sale items and therefore skip the online mall? IE I offer membership options, then also DVDs, VHS tapes, signed photo prints, etc. The customer signs up for a membership and then is taken to *MY* shopping cart for a "further shopping experience" of more items he can buy if he wants to... and is not hand-led to my competitors.
Is this viable? Or would we still be forced to hand our member over to our competitors and their sites via the online mall?

C) When the customer makes a purchase for a membership at my site, then goes on to make another purchase through the mall, and eventually charges back the *second* purchase, is Mastercard going to hold me liable for that chargeback since he was originally my customer?

D) Does this mean CCBill is going to provide a shopping cart interface to all of its clients? Or will they *only* have the CCBill Search & Shop website?

Kimmykim · 07-23-2003, 09:33 AM

Was there anything in the CCBill notification that indicated hard goods or truly shippable items would be involved? If so, I missed it.

tony286 · 07-23-2003, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
If you think about some of the things in this directive, there are some very creative marketing opportunities.

Before the surfer buys anything.

Isnt that what caused most of this trouble lol.

BRISK · 07-23-2003, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Carrie
[B]Questions:

A) What does this mean for affiliates? If we send a signup to site #1, and the customer buys and then also buys from site #2 - do we get a signup from the second sale as well?
Seems to me that this would necessitate the re-introduction of CCBucks, where one account could let you promote everyone in the system.

Good question

ServerGenius · 07-23-2003, 09:51 AM

Ok so if I understand correctly we can soon buy keywords for CCbill's shop and search? Can we also make deals like this?

I make a deal with a penis pill dude....that once a visitor buys
my site comes up in search and shop and I offer a discount to
my services because he bought penis pills....and other way around?

Let's call this preferred cross-sales

DynaMite

RonC · 07-23-2003, 09:59 AM

I am sure there are lots of questions. I will make myself available for the next couple of hours to help explain the new rules. So fire away

Ron C

BRISK · 07-23-2003, 10:09 AM

Ron, what does Mastercard hope to gain from this forced diverse shopping experience for customers? Whats their reasoning for this?

Kimmykim · 07-23-2003, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tony404

Isnt that what caused most of this trouble lol.

No.

polish_aristocrat · 07-23-2003, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Allister
Greetings all:

I should have looked here first for more input before my message being sent to mastercard (specifically the in-person presentation of alternate options). But below is a message I sent and hope to get a reply to. Another point that I really wish I had thought to put in is whether we, the webmaster get blamed for every single chargeback that they incurred by having stolen our traffic from us.

Greetings:

I just recieved an email from CCBILL outlining some "new rules" mastercard has implemented.

First, the quote: "The exact rule that MasterCard implemented is that consumers must be able to purchase diverse goods during one shopping experience. The essence of the rule was that CCBill had to create an option for consumers to not only complete their sign-up with the venue that got them to the sign-up form, but also to continue shopping at CCBill.Com."

The problem that you are causing here is that while you are making more money off the "off" sales, you are sullying internet traffic. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND that you look at the long term profits you are going to be denied because of the short term money grab. When you sully the traffic, webmasters WON'T want to deal with you (because you have just stolen our traffic - aka. our source of income - from our pockets).

Also, could you please send me a link to somewhere on your site that tells me why, exactly, mastercard can make "rules" that other's have to follow. These affect entire national economies and cc companies are allowed to do it. I am really interested as to why.

Yours Truly,
/...

I hope being civil get's me a response. I decided not to go straight to calling them criminals (though it would seem like a blackmail type of thing going on there right now).

Cheers,
/Allister CC's

you really sent them that message ?
LOL, I don't think you'll get a reply...
You had said that they steal your ( our ) traffic...

BradShaw · 07-23-2003, 10:16 AM

I am sure there is some good reason for doing this, I do not get it though. To increase transactions? To fall under a different category for MC with a higher cb/credit rate? Would CCbill care to comment? To me, it looks like it cpuld a traffic leak from the join page. Some people rather than finishing the transaction, they would go search for other things, get distracted, possibly get off, and never buy.

polish_aristocrat · 07-23-2003, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Matt 26z
If I understand this correctly, after a surfer buys a membership to a site and chooses to continue shopping they will then be presented with other porn sites. You have control over the first X number of results, but not all of them.

So you'd better hope they don't see something better they may want instead.

But if it's actual goods that they buy along with your site, there's no way they can claim stoen acct and charge back. Correct? The physical evidence would be there that they bought the goods, and thus, your site also.

no, after he buys membership to site A, he can choose if he wants to see other offers too.

There are no goods currently. I took a look at this and you can make a search for a domain keyword, like "asian' ( I did so ) and the results are listed in alphabetical order....

wow, ccbill, will you hire me ?

Lensman · 07-23-2003, 10:20 AM

Ron, where does the customer make the decision to use Visa or MC? If they pick Visa, they go to the Visa form. If Mastercard, they go to the CCticketmasterBILL site?

RonC · 07-23-2003, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BRISK
Ron, what does Mastercard hope to gain from this forced diverse shopping experience for customers? Whats their reasoning for this?

Good Question.

If you figure out the answer please let me know. I learned a long time ago that when you deal with Logic and Card Associations in the same sentence you will drive yourself crazy. The bottom line was we had 3 choices

1. Comply with their new rules
2. Register every customer like Paypal and pay $1500 each
3. File a lawsuit

CCbill and its Aquirer have decided that option 1 was in the best interest of our Clients at the present time.

I can tell you that over 47 different companies are being forced to change business models. We are told this also includes Non-Adult companies like Amazon.

Ron C

Lensman · 07-23-2003, 10:22 AM

Also Ron, how does this impact MC's CB and credit limits. And what are they?

CoolE · 07-23-2003, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RonC
I am sure there are lots of questions. I will make myself available for the next couple of hours to help explain the new rules. So fire away

Ron C

Hi Ron,

1. Is the Shopping section presented DURING the initial signup or AFTER as an "add-on"?

2. Is the Shopping section also presented to Visa signups, or just MC?

3. Does CCBill have any plans to improve the search feature in the Shopping section? Right now it only looks for the search term in the domain. Will sponsored merchants get a chance to describe their site or label it with keywords to improve this feature?

4. Any plans to credit affiliates with sales no matter what site they sign up for? Right now, they won't get anything for these crosssells will they?

5. Won't this increase chargebacks, at least directionally, by complicating the signup process?

Thanks in advance.

BRISK · 07-23-2003, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RonC

Good Question.

If you figure out the answer please let me know.

ummm....I assume you talk to Mastercard? Didn't you ask them yourself when you were wondering what the point of it was?

BRISK · 07-23-2003, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CoolE

5. Won't this increase chargebacks, at least directionally, by complicating the signup process?

Thats what I was thinking.

Take a simple process and complicate the fuck out of it. Send someone that just spent $30 on a membership off into some site to get completely lost and forget what the URL is of the site they just joined, so now they can't even find the porn they paid for.

tony286 · 07-23-2003, 10:32 AM

I wish the 3rd party processors would of given us a choice, I would of gladly paid $1500 to register but I guess that would of meant less customers for the third party processors.

RonC · 07-23-2003, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lensman
Ron, where does the customer make the decision to use Visa or MC? If they pick Visa, they go to the Visa form. If Mastercard, they go to the CCticketmasterBILL site?

In CCbill Admin Section we have a flash demo that will walk our customers through all the details. Please Review this it is extremely helpful.

Each company had to submit to MasterCard a plan of compliance. As a result each of our systems will probably be slightly different. We all had certain criteria that we had to meet. CCbill has had numerous telephone calls and 2 actual meetings in Purchase NY to develop our plan.

The basics are this

1. Customer comes to normal signup form. It looks just like it does today.

2. The start filling it out. IF they use a MasterCard in the Credit Card box. The bottom of the form will change.

3. 1st they will be presented with a second option.
"Purchase NOW, and Continue to shop"

4. At this point first sale is complete.

5. We also have to include a descriptor of what the product is on the signup form.

6. Remember that only customers that Choose MasterCard, and Choose to continue to shop will see the next options.
We at CCbill feel that this will be a very small number of customers.

Ron C

07-23-2003, 07:32 AM	#4
polish_aristocrat Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 40,381	so these are the new Mastercard requirements... ? I can't see there anything bad... __________________ I don't use ICQ anymore.

07-23-2003, 08:27 AM	#6
andi_germany Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 768	Ok I understand what is happening but how Mastercard thinks chargebacks will drop is beyond me. Besides the original sales the customer is forced into a cicle of shops and upsells. Noone can tell me that is within what the customer wants. __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

07-23-2003, 08:27 AM	#7
FATPad Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 6,693	Anyone else hear that "whooooosh" as the air was taken out of ibill's sails? __________________ <a href="http://www.adultcontent.co.uk">Adult Content UK - Great British Content</a>

07-23-2003, 08:34 AM	#8
BRISK Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 12,240	Why does Mastercard care about the further shopping experiences? What does that have to do with chargebacks? I don't think it's a bad thing, I just don't understand why they're asking for it. Explain __________________ I post on GFY so that when people ask me what I do, I can tell them that I work with the mentally retarded.

07-23-2003, 08:36 AM	#10
BRISK Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 12,240	Why does Mastercard care if you can purchase diverse goods during one shopping experience? __________________ I post on GFY so that when people ask me what I do, I can tell them that I work with the mentally retarded.

07-23-2003, 07:08 AM	#1
corvette Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: scottsdale Posts: 7,880	CCBill MasterCard Informational Release Dear CCBill Client - Since March 2002, CCBill has been working with MasterCard to achieve full compliance with their rules and requirements. We hope that this release, and the accompanying demonstrations within your CCBill Admin (webadmin.ccbill.com), will help you understand what final changes we all must make to be compliant with MasterCard regulations. We have worked diligently to create the easiest and least intrusive model that we could and, as always, are here to help you through the process and changes in the industry. MasterCard Requirements Although we cannot speak on the actions of others in this industry, CCBill is in a position where it is possible to comply with all association rules and regulations with minimal changes to either your, or our, business model. In the document below, we will attempt to explain the major issues and explain your role in the necessary changes. CCBill deals with the consumer throughout the transaction CCBill?s service is similar to that of Ticketmaster and any other company that provides outsourced Box Office, e-ticketing, and access management for clients. The consumers come to our box office (an approved sign-up form) and negotiate directly with us for access to your electronic venue. CCBill is responsible for providing the consumer an electronic ticket (confirmation) and ensuring customer satisfaction and service throughout the terms of our agreement. What affect does this have on you, CCBill?s client?[list=1][]Clients need to be careful that their marketing indicates that the consumer is purchasing access through CCBill. For the most part, this is the case already. []The above includes the use of MasterCard logos and trademarks. Please see CCBill?s AUP regarding this matter. []CCBill?s clients cannot pass any of the consumer?s personal information to CCBill besides consumer email. This means that besides consumer email, two-part forms used for marketing will not be allowed to pass data in to CCBill sign-up forms.[/list=1] CCBill must create a consumer ?shopping experience? at ccbill.com* In an effort to satisfy MasterCard?s demands, CCBill is pleased to announce the upcoming August 15, 2003 launch of the new CCBill.com Search & Shop Consumer website located at www.ccbill.com CCBill's Search & Shop Website offers online consumers an exclusive buying experience by introducing these consumers to the thousands of subscription-based websites or electronic venues for which CCBill offers E-Ticketing access services.* A full DEMO of This Experience is Available within your CCBill Admin. What does Search & Shop mean to you as a CCBill Client? As a valued client, your account's website URL's may randomly be returned to online visitors that come directly to www.ccbill.com when they type their search criteria into the Search & Shop* search engine located at CCBill.com; if one of your websites is randomly returned, these consumers may choose to purchase an E-Ticket for membership to your website via the Search & Shop Shopping Cart.* There is nothing you have to do for your sites to be returned in the random search engine. CCBill will randomly generate returns for searched criteria. Important Note: CCBill will generate random username and passwords for all sales generated through the CCBill.com Search & Shop Website. Please see CCBill?s tutorials within your web admin. CCBill must allow consumers to continue shopping from the sign-up forms* The exact rule that MasterCard implemented is that consumers must be able to purchase diverse goods during one shopping experience. The essence of the rule was that CCBill had to create an option for consumers to not only complete their sign-up with the venue that got them to the sign-up form, but also to continue shopping at CCBill.Com. If an online customer visits your website, and chooses to use their MasterCard to purchase a subscription via your CCBill Sign up form; upon entering their MasterCard number onto the subscription form, they will dynamically be presented with two options for completing their sale: The opportunity to simply purchase their subscription and complete their shopping at that time; or Complete this purchase, and then continue shopping on the Search & Shop website. If they choose this option, they will be taken to the Search & Shop website, where the first returned page will present them with a statement of their purchase along with a returned search results area, which can include your sub account URL's or, affiliate accounts of your choices, as the initial or first returns for your customer?s continued shopping experience.* Please see the full demo within your CCBill reports admin. CCBill has already revamped every form in our system and there is no work required on our clients? part. CCBill must provide a description sufficient for a consumer to purchase the ticket* CCBill has created an interactive system that will create automated selling statements for our clients? venue on the Search and Shop pages. Due to the short production time allowed by MasterCard for the creation of this new system, all selling statements located at ccbill.com will be the responsibility of CCBill.com, and cannot be customized by clients at this time. CCBill does not require you to create your own selling description on your sign-up forms. CCBill has, however, created an interface that allows you to create a custom selling description to be added to the sign-up forms of your choice within your account. CCBill must approve all custom descriptions prior to their placement on your forms. Remember, if you choose not to customize your descriptors, a default description created by CCBill will already appear. Summary of Changes Below we have provided a quick summary of the changes and have broken them down into what CCBill has already done and what you must do. CCBill Create Consumer Shopping Experience Allow multiple purchases when purchasing by MasterCard Create Selling Descriptors Our Client Nothing, unless you choose to do so. Please log into webadmin.ccbill.com to learn more about the customizable features available to you. A description and tutorial on the features can be found under the ?Premium Features? Tab within your Admin. Once there, select ?Search & Shop?, take a walk through of a flash demonstration of the ?consumer experience?, and learn how to get the most out of these new features. As our Industry continues to change, it is our goal at CCBill to continually provide you with innovative solutions to support your websites and e-venues success today, tomorrow, and into the future. As of August 15, 2003, and with the re-designation of www.ccbill.com as a consumer based website, you will be able to access your client services needs, including links to System5, Account Change Forms, and Technical Support at our new business website, bizcenter.ccbill.com. Please remember, that along with this release we have also created hands-on samples and tutorials within your reports admin area. These presentations should answer any remaining questions and guide you through the process. If you have any additional questions regarding the new Search & Shop system, please feel free to contact us at [email protected] or call us at 800.510.2859. Thank You For Your Continued Patronage Ron Cadwell President CCBill, LLC __________________ If you need a good company for check writing services, then check out checkissuing, and for webhosting, check out Phoenix NAP

07-23-2003, 07:25 AM	#3
Madball Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 748	Now thank God ibill will do a webcast on this hahahaha

07-23-2003, 08:35 AM	#9
Cindyff Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: California Posts: 1,187	This all sounds like a real can of worms to me. On one hand we hear that cross selling is bad and results in charge backs now we hear its ok to sell a number of sites to the same member ? Maybe i am reading this wrong but as webmasters you all know most of the people out there that join adult sites are not too bright ? All they want is an instant whack off instigated by the great tour they have just visited ? Are they going to remember which sites they joined when they are able to make one two or even three purchases at one time. This to me sounds like the perfect recipe for more charge backs. Cindy xx

07-23-2003, 08:42 AM	#13
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,016	Mastercard are idiots, there is no doubt about it. This just goes to prove the point.

07-23-2003, 08:45 AM	#14
PM2 So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: CHICAGO Posts: 504	maybe so the consumer is aware they are purchasing a membership essentially from a broker of several different websites and not just a site owner. Knowing this, they are more likely to contact ccbill to cancel their membership instead of simply charging back. Builds awareness that ccbill is the biller, and recognition of what exactly a 3rd party biller is.

07-23-2003, 08:46 AM	#15
Jizar II Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: LLL© Posts: 1,425	very interesting!

07-23-2003, 08:52 AM	#18
BRISK Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 12,240	It's like buying a Ford from a Ford dealership and then once you've paid for it, they send you walking through the rest of the Auto mall to look at Chevy, Mazda, Toyota, and Mercedes dealerships before you can get in and drive your new car off the lot. __________________ I post on GFY so that when people ask me what I do, I can tell them that I work with the mentally retarded.

07-23-2003, 08:56 AM	#19
gothweb Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Back in the USSA Posts: 8,849	I seem to remember another biller also introducing a shopping experience a while back to comply with MasterCard. I think, to a certain extent, that requirement helps classify a biller as a shopping centre, rather than a third-party processor. It may not be directly related to the 1% chargeback requirement. One thing I have been wondering is this: How would the chargeback situation be affected if the biller sent a receipt for purchase by registered mail to every customer at their billing address. I'd love to see people challenge it, if the IP address, etc. were logged and included. __________________ Photos by Ian X.: Distinctive photos of goth babes. Blood Money:Your traffic, my sites, our money. MojoHost: Still the best.

07-23-2003, 08:58 AM	#20
Allister Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Vancouver, BC. (email [email protected]) Posts: 13	Greetings all: I should have looked here first for more input before my message being sent to mastercard (specifically the in-person presentation of alternate options). But below is a message I sent and hope to get a reply to. Another point that I really wish I had thought to put in is whether we, the webmaster get blamed for every single chargeback that they incurred by having stolen our traffic from us. Greetings: I just recieved an email from CCBILL outlining some "new rules" mastercard has implemented. First, the quote: "The exact rule that MasterCard implemented is that consumers must be able to purchase diverse goods during one shopping experience. The essence of the rule was that CCBill had to create an option for consumers to not only complete their sign-up with the venue that got them to the sign-up form, but also to continue shopping at CCBill.Com." The problem that you are causing here is that while you are making more money off the "off" sales, you are sullying internet traffic. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND that you look at the long term profits you are going to be denied because of the short term money grab. When you sully the traffic, webmasters WON'T want to deal with you (because you have just stolen our traffic - aka. our source of income - from our pockets). Also, could you please send me a link to somewhere on your site that tells me why, exactly, mastercard can make "rules" that other's have to follow. These affect entire national economies and cc companies are allowed to do it. I am really interested as to why. Yours Truly, /... I hope being civil get's me a response. I decided not to go straight to calling them criminals (though it would seem like a blackmail type of thing going on there right now). Cheers, /Allister CC's __________________ If you don't like my opinion, I am most likely laughing at yours.

07-23-2003, 09:08 AM	#27
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,016	If you think about some of the things in this directive, there are some very creative marketing opportunities. Before the surfer buys anything.

07-23-2003, 09:20 AM	#31
Matt 26z So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: ¤ª"˜¨๑۩۞۩๑¨˜"ª¤ Posts: 18,481	If I understand this correctly, after a surfer buys a membership to a site and chooses to continue shopping they will then be presented with other porn sites. You have control over the first X number of results, but not all of them. So you'd better hope they don't see something better they may want instead. But if it's actual goods that they buy along with your site, there's no way they can claim stoen acct and charge back. Correct? The physical evidence would be there that they bought the goods, and thus, your site also.

07-23-2003, 09:27 AM	#32
Carrie Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Virgin - nee Posts: 3,162	Questions: A) What does this mean for affiliates? If we send a signup to site #1, and the customer buys and then also buys from site #2 - do we get a signup from the second sale as well? Seems to me that this would necessitate the re-introduction of CCBucks, where one account could let you promote everyone in the system. B) Could the webmaster provide multiple sale items and therefore skip the online mall? IE I offer membership options, then also DVDs, VHS tapes, signed photo prints, etc. The customer signs up for a membership and then is taken to MY shopping cart for a "further shopping experience" of more items he can buy if he wants to... and is not hand-led to my competitors. Is this viable? Or would we still be forced to hand our member over to our competitors and their sites via the online mall? C) When the customer makes a purchase for a membership at my site, then goes on to make another purchase through the mall, and eventually charges back the second purchase, is Mastercard going to hold me liable for that chargeback since he was originally my customer? D) Does this mean CCBill is going to provide a shopping cart interface to all of its clients? Or will they only have the CCBill Search & Shop website?

07-23-2003, 09:33 AM	#33
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,016	Was there anything in the CCBill notification that indicated hard goods or truly shippable items would be involved? If so, I missed it.

07-23-2003, 09:51 AM	#36
ServerGenius Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 9,377	Ok so if I understand correctly we can soon buy keywords for CCbill's shop and search? Can we also make deals like this? I make a deal with a penis pill dude....that once a visitor buys my site comes up in search and shop and I offer a discount to my services because he bought penis pills....and other way around? Let's call this preferred cross-sales DynaMite __________________ \| http://www.sinnerscash.com/ \| ICQ: 370820 \| Skype: SinnersCash \| AdultWhosWho \|

07-23-2003, 09:59 AM	#37
RonC Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 236	I am sure there are lots of questions. I will make myself available for the next couple of hours to help explain the new rules. So fire away Ron C

07-23-2003, 10:09 AM	#38
BRISK Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 12,240	Ron, what does Mastercard hope to gain from this forced diverse shopping experience for customers? Whats their reasoning for this? __________________ I post on GFY so that when people ask me what I do, I can tell them that I work with the mentally retarded.

07-23-2003, 10:16 AM	#41
BradShaw Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: KB's trailer Posts: 7,840	I am sure there is some good reason for doing this, I do not get it though. To increase transactions? To fall under a different category for MC with a higher cb/credit rate? Would CCbill care to comment? To me, it looks like it cpuld a traffic leak from the join page. Some people rather than finishing the transaction, they would go search for other things, get distracted, possibly get off, and never buy. __________________ Sig too big http://www.gofuckyourself.com/gfy_faqs.html Want to use a large banner in your sig??? Contact Eric about getting on as an advertiser - eric AT adult.com

07-23-2003, 10:20 AM	#43
Lensman GFY Chaperone Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Adult.com Posts: 9,846	Ron, where does the customer make the decision to use Visa or MC? If they pick Visa, they go to the Visa form. If Mastercard, they go to the CCticketmasterBILL site?

07-23-2003, 10:22 AM	#45
Lensman GFY Chaperone Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Adult.com Posts: 9,846	Also Ron, how does this impact MC's CB and credit limits. And what are they?

07-23-2003, 10:32 AM	#49
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	I wish the 3rd party processors would of given us a choice, I would of gladly paid $1500 to register but I guess that would of meant less customers for the third party processors.